There's a very good chance that a lot of what Patrice O'Neal says will offend you. And there's an equal chance he'll say something that will change your outlook. So it makes sense that Marc, in the midst of emotional turmoil, would turn to a sturdy, non-polarizing voice like Patrice's. Expect some analogies. Lots and lots of analogies.
You will truly be missed.
I recommend his old show, "Black Phillip"
Patrice himself said he was convicted of STATUTORY RAPE. Statutory rape is when you fuck someone underage. PERIOD. It doesn't matter what color you are, what color the underage person is, or what color the person listening to the podcast is.
Some states have ages of consent as low as 15, other's don't. NY's is 17. Some states have "Romeo and Juliet" laws, where it's not statutory rape if the age difference is only 2 years. Others don't.
Statutory rape charge only has to do with the age of the person. NOT, whatever Patrice or you might think, about whether or not "she lied."
When he says he was convicted because "she lied," he's either misunderstanding the law, or just not owning up to his shit. Because it doesn't matter whether she lied or NOT, as long as he had sex with her.
Now, you might argue that the age difference was so minor that the law should be different, and I might agree with you, although the fact that it was NOT some "Romeo and Juliet" romance between teens, but rather "pulling a train" in Patrice's own words would tend to undermine that argument, and instead seem to indicate that the kid was being used as a piece of meat.
I don't need to calm my ass down, I am calm. I also don't need to "know" what you say, because unlike your ignorant ass I don't make a habit of considering incorrect information "knowledge."
Tell it to the fucking judge that it's not statutory rape - guess what - that's where you're wrong too. The LAW calls it, that's why Patrice got his ass locked up.
Different racial views? How would you know what race I am? Beef with Patrice? Not really. I do think he's sexist and a misogynist, but I think that because he fucking IS (unless it's just part of his act). He's also a fucking coward.
If he said "I was convicted of statutory rape because she was underage, but I think the law is wrong" or if he said "I was young and I fucked up" that would be one thing - but instead he takes a total cop-out.
I hope you're not saying that seeing women as meat, as inferior, as subject to men, to be dominated by men, and seeing it as OK to gang fuck a 15 year old kid (willing or not) is simply a "different racial view," because if so I know a hell of a lot of men and women of color who would be seriously fucking offended by that generalization.
Statutory rape is when you have sex with someone underage EVEN WHEN THEY ARE WILLING. 15 was below the age of consent. Even if the girl had been saying "yeah, we had sex but I wanted to." Even if she had said "it was my idea, I wanted sex with him, please leave him alone" it STILL would legally be statutory rape.
If the girl lied and called it rape and that had been convincing, he would not have been convicted of statutory rape, he would have been convicted of RAPE, period, and that would have had a MUCH longer prison sentence attached to it.
Statutory rape charge means that they DIDN'T charge him with forcing himself on her, it meant that she may have been willing but was too young to be legally able to consent. That's simply a legal fact, regardless of whether she lied about being willing. If she had claimed to have seduced him - STILL, came charge. Statutory rape.
Now, maybe you think the law is wrong, that's one thing. But it's BULLSHIT to say that he was sent to prison on a lie, and him saying that shows he's in denial. He was sent to prison for fucking an underage kid, and he doesn't deny that he did that.
Women and Black people have a similar problem. They are trying to exist in a world controlled by white men, but they are trying to gain the respect of white men by copying white men. The problem is that the position isn't honest to core of what they are, and the will never be respected by white men as such. White men will never understand their privilege opposed to the position of others. Therefore, it is a fruitless exercise to try to assimilate.
The reality is that he is, for the most part, accurate about the race issue. Race discussions aren't honest. White people fear being called a racist so they won't be honest about their opinions and racism is the foundation of this country but they are so blind that it isn't even conceivable to them is some instances.
Black people will always be on the outside even from the inside.
Re: "Personality types are too diverse for such a simplistic understanding of human relationships."
I don't think Patrice or anyone on this thread is purporting that it's ONLY this or that way for ALL relationships and couples. Stereotypes are based on real patterns, just are observations like these.
I dated a lot of women before getting married, know a significant number of other married couples, and some of these points definitely ring true for me. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule.
For instance, I'm sure there are a few female great whites out there that like dating polar bears and t-rexes.
I'm surprised that among the allegations of sexism and all the other bullshit that people are hurling at him no one bothered to note that
THE MAN WAS SENT TO PRISON ON A GODDAMN LIE.
It colored his view of everything. It's his reality.
When I was a sophomore in high school a girl accused me of sexual harassment. Why? I asked her friend to the prom instead of her. She invented lie after lie about me. Many people disbelieved it because they knew she was insane. But it traumatized 15-year-old me because some people believed it or thought that it was possible. I was called for an emergency meeting in the principal's office, and it almost went to court. It colored my view of women for the rest of my life.
I know this dude's struggle in that regard. I don't pretend to know his struggle insofar as it involves race.
But as Dicaprio's character said to his friend in "The Departed," "You're a black man in Boston. You don't need my help to be completely fucked."
I guess since that was written with an academic tinge i will agree with you, even though you mention none of this TRUTH, in your post.
DOUCHE
Patrice is funny and real, believe it when i tell you (or don't) that if you had spent a day in his shoes, or ones like them, you would not so quickly dismiss his premises.
The only problem comes when you use deceptive or violent coercion to manipulate another person into investing in a relationship with you. That's abuse. But it doesn't seem like this is what Patrice is doing (though you can never be sure just from one public interview); He was honest about his viewpoints, and as long as any potential women he wants to hook up with understand their place as he sees it, they're just two free agents in voluntary association.
In a very real sense, I think all this talk about kings, queens, sharks, and penguins and shit is just a gobbledygoop way of talking about success and ambition in human mating. The idea that women can't be happy with a man who lets her walk all over him (my paraphrasing) is too close to the evolutionary psychological notion that women (historically and in general) are attracted to ambitious and successful, and thus powerful, men to be mere coincidence, though distorted through a misogynistic lens.
As gross as it is to look at after it's been filtered through truly spiteful social and cultural biases, someone with this sort of opinion has more insight into what drives their own human behavior than most people.
That sort of brings me to my next point, which is that honesty isn't a crime, but ignorance is. Especially for a middle-class person in the internet age. It's great that Patrice is willing to be honest about his opinions and his philosophy on relationships, but it's absolute manure. Personality types are too diverse for such a simplistic understanding of human relationships. Ambition, success, power, and all these things may influence female mating decisions, but because we lack the same evolutionary pressures that made them prominent 100,000 years ago (i.e., in the west where Patrice's style of patriarchy has fallen out of favor, children aren't going to starve to death because a feckless man failed to hunt the big game, etc...), everyone has been slowly adapting to the new order by finding surrogate traits by which to judge potential mates.
In other words, if to our very old brain which hasn't changed much since the dawn of man, all potential mates for a woman are pretty much equally capable of helping to produce viable offspring that will survive long enough to produce and care for its own offspring, we have to find more diverse, less evolutionarily relevant traits by which to differentiate mates.
The opposite argument, and what seems to be the implied argument of Patrice's philosophy, is that we should reduce back to a state of nature, "red in tooth and claw" so that people will be more comfortable with the simple choices presented to them, instead of embracing the complex and sometimes frustrating diversity of personalities presented to us in modern relationship-making.
The thing he said about jews, having a bad guy, O.K.(and I left a comment similar to this on you tube) this is an indisputed fact (based on the histories and records available to us) jews were slaves in Egypt for so long that they were slaves in Egypt before humans wrote down their history, or even had paper or animal skin to write our history on. And just for those who don't know, Egypt is in africa. The thing is, the best revenge is to live better, Adam Sandler isn't living in Africa feeling entitled and angry and bitter, he just made a career for himself in a country where that anger won't always be under the surface whenever you talk to a person who was born a certain way, and I'm not even sticking up for one or the other, I'm just saying "if you think that racism is the root of all your problems...how do you believe that more racism will help the situation". (as far as being mad at a person for being born with white skin)
A nice and raw episode. I thought he was full of it in places but very honest and candid none the less. Truly great Podcasting!
All I did was work my ass off to give her what she wanted, first it was grad school, then it was a baby, then it was selling my house and moving us away from her first ex-husband (father of her first son), then it was buying a big house. She had the pleasure of being a stay at home mother during the early, formulative years with our son. I worked at home - enjoyed my work - and participated with housework and the kids. I did both roles, but it was never enough.
I thought working hard and being more of a father than my father was enough, but it wasn't.
What it boils down to is that in this post-feminism era, women are still battling with the search for equality - striving to be men and compete with them - while at the same time looking down on them. They don't know what they want their men to be because what they think they want them to be is not men. Yet they are still attracted to me. They are battling with their unconscious biological programming that has been ingrained in them for centuries.
A King and Queen - it works and being a Queen is not a bad thing. It's fucking nature!
Don't get me wrong - I never saw myself as above my Wife. But to her, I made her feel small. The reality is that she made herself feel that way. Her first husband was food - a fucking penguin. Pushover, village idiot. She ate him and moved on to me - type A overachiever with a sense of humor and a strong presence and a soft side.
Not only did I bring home the bacon, I did the laundry, I changed diapers, and I cooked.
I didn't totally agree with Patrices racial views, but I'd defitely love to hang with the guy. Laughed out a loud more than once and some of his analogies are spot on.
"You ain't even got no boat"
A new relationship? are you boning your roommate?
That is awesome. Please, please please please don't fuck this up again.
This broadcast is a MUST LISTEN TO FOR EVERY MAN ON PLANET EARTH. Women may find the misogyny a bit challenging.
I look up to you Marc. I think you are a good example of how to arrange a brain. Its so important to be honest AND funny. I love your shows and look forward to them.
This interview with Patrice O'Neil is the greatest audio broadcast of this or the last century...
the truths Patrice reveals will either enlighten or drive you insane!
Namaste,
Tim
Patrice on sex war is just a poorly articulated gloss on what evolutionary psychology, and Leykis 101, convincingly delineates.
Nice work, Patrice, and excellent chat, Marc!
He was the warehouse manager on The Office, right?
Why did they replace him with Craig Robinson?
I don't think Craig is all that funny, generally.
Awesome. I love Patrice.
Great interview.
Great job Marc having patience with him, i know it was difficult to get a word in, especially for someone like u who likes the sound of his voice. U ROCK dude.